Although, both people and God can be disappointing in ways myself included. Here in this comment thread, we havent really talked about the latter. In recent years, Pete has become well known for several highly popular books, including How the Bible Actually Works, The Bible Tells Me So, and the book we discussed with him today: The Sin of Certainty. In opposition to this you may place the fruits of others and their understanding of God. So its great that God is guiding you and keeping you safe but yet not doing the same for kids with cancer etc. Id suggest if participation, longing, , and immediacy are ways of knowing God, that they would more need to be means of recursively traversing an infinite regress of fractal complexity than means of simply and linearly knowing a static being. And I would suggest this hypothetical is realized in all actuality within spiritual perception. He is the podcast host of The Bible for Normal People. Theologian Peter Enns refuses to shy away from asking the larger questions about Christian faith. And whether that link between what you perceive or experience and reality is as strong as you think. . even if our lack of understanding gives us a sense that our existence is meaningless and that, if one could, one would not choose existence. This is perhaps another way to look at the sin of certainty. fullness Evidence used that way is a foundationalist dead end, but thats not the only way of interpreting Experience, of which scientific experiments are one kind. If I have the experience of perceiving spiraling motion when looking upon a static optical illusion, you cannot deny that I have the experience of perceiving motion. Im more so now in my life in the former group of people. D. Modl, Archologie zwischen Mur und . Im pretty sure it looks like what we are doing on here (if our intentions are purely to seek and accept). The western way of knowing privileges the observation and analysis/testingofexternal evidence by knowledgable, experienced, and educated people who make arguments and defend them. IMHO knowing God is as relevant as your next breath, I mean, who gave you that breath? Thanks in advance for your thoughts. We also know how it may be tricked to produce the illusion of say motion or scale that is not really there. Magic is not real. in being with another person expressing love in ones flesh. As long as the genes replicate, its worked. Outside of his academic work Enns is a contributor to HuffPost and Patheos. Then once that person starts walking with God God (should) will reveal the truth to them. It may be a way of knowing, but not necessarily yielding as many as true things as possible and as few as false things as possible. I mean, youre already done this with respect to Christian Mystics. I would take as examples of this people such as Jesus and the profound impact on the entire world for the good, that his truth has produced, and by extension, His Apostles and their experience. Bradley Jersak (Author), Peter Enns (Foreword) 167 ratings 4.5 on Goodreads 141 ratings See all formats and editions Kindle $14.99 Read with Our Free App Audiobook $0.00 Free with your Audible trial Paperback $16.55 8 Used from $10.79 25 New from $13.67 Great on Kindle Great Experience. After writing "Analysis of Rachel Held Evan's Book "Inspired" Part 1: Introduction" yesterday I noticed that Rachel Held Evans sees Peter Enns as a mentor. Some people really like what I say. In this episode of The Bible for Normal People, Daniel Kirk joins Pete and Jared to explain the major themes in the book of Romans, why the Romans Road view of salvation is insufficient, and how a focus on God's righteousness through Jesus Christ shaped Paul's vision of harmony between Jews and Gentiles. Not really. . Or even what the cosmos is? I like the fruit of this way of knowingeverything from electricity and medicine to electron-microscopesand radio telescopes. For, everything is under the one and the same law-the law of transformation and decline. Sorry for the late reply. The Christian scriptures are clear that we can indeed experience God if we respond to Him when He calls us. I find cultural differences to be fascinating and rich sources in discovering what is possible within the human experience. I am committed to encouraging young Christian men and women to explore their faith by engaging Scripture, and in so doing make their faith their own and mature as followers of Christ. At the same time, I was taking philosophy and religion courses and was drawn to finding ways to explain my ongoing relationship/wrestling match with God-Jesus-Spirit. One of the hallmarks of progressive Christianity is a rejection of biblical sexuality, and an affirmation of same-sex marriage and premarital sex. Perhaps less than that, I would be more arrogant, less loving, poorer, and have no progeny. Mitchel Modine is an Old Testament scholar who works at Asia-Pacific Nazarene Theological Seminary. One final question. I think it is safe to say that much of my academic journey has been a process of synthesizing these (and other) influences in my life. As is knowledge of Lord Brahma, Lord Vishnu, and Lord Shiva. While specific sins against a particular God, prophet, holy book, holy place, or sacrament, are as diverse as could be. . And it is worth noting that my list is subjective too. Also check out The Inner Eye of Love by a Jesuit named William Johnson, or try books by Dom Bede Griffiths, a fellow convert with C. S. Lewis but who spent his life in India dialoguing with people of other religions. Usually we treat eye-witness testimonies as valid proofs of an experience, especially when they corroborate key elements of the same story (granted one can misinterpret what their senses tell them). No different than if we observed sight to function so unreliably that 10 different people looking at the same event saw 10 substantially different things and this happened again and again and again and was in fact the norm. But is that version of a Messiah a bringer of healing to all? Yet how is this testimony for more than such kind of belief being an adaptive trait? The other day he wrote a post that he entitled Why I Don't Believe in God Anymore. As is knowledge of Allah. But I see no reason to believe that Jesus of Nazareth has been, is, or will be the means of grace or hope of glory. Lets not let a label lead us toward an equivocation. As if chosen by God to tell people who should be a christian based on their concerns regarding the bible. My personal thought is that 11 Peter is one of the later books of the NT; likely written circa 125-150 AD. To me, simply, neither these two billion adherents nor there leaders really seem all that differentiated from their peer adherents of Allah, Brahma, and more in sacred task of transforming the world. So same with spiritual experiences. transrational Im trying to think through/explore this. (edited with Chris Wlezien). So true. Instead, he needs to go the edge of the realm and scratch against the edges. Specifically on love as a way of knowing. He likes to tell stories about the messy Bible and is the author of The Bible Tells Me So, The Sin of Certainty, and How the Bible Actually Works. better bring your own redemption when you come It is knowing of a different order. Another mans spiritual experience cannot be denied. If so, they can be dismissed with their faulty foundations, but offered opportunity to reconsider their understandings and emphases to get back in the race. And there is no one way to come to belief or faith in God, and in Christ our Savior. Good concepts of God and faiths are ripe with irony and paradox in their making the world right. where Paul regards Adam's disobedience as the cause of universal sin and death from which humanity is redeemed through the obedience of Christ. An Atheist that believes in God. These are ideals that I subjectively value. Tweets at @peteenns. But by putting these experiences on the table and sharing them, we can say some objective things about them. Why the need to respond ? To me, simply, neither these two billion adherents nor their leaders really seem all that differentiated from their peer adherents of Allah, Brahma, and more in sacred task of transforming the world. http://www.al-islam.org/tradition-myrobalan-fruit-hadith-al-halila-imam-jafar-al-sadiq/hadith. This emphasis on experience is important at a simple, direct level (participating in corporate worship, daily prayer, seeing/hearing God in others, etc. I have posts on my blog, Scrivenings, about depressions and suicide among Christians, and their gullibility, i.e., religious affinity fraud. So I would never presume to tell someone like Pete or the Dali Lama that their experiences are not in their subjective sense real. Only that any confidence they glean from those experiences to then conclude what they believe they encountered they actually in fact have, well, that I would claim is highly suspect and demonstrably so. Peter Enns does it again!' Richard Rohr, author of Falling Upward For many Christians, the Bible is a how-to manual filled with literal truths about belief that must be strictly followed. None the less, I believe in Democracy and think Iron Man is awesome. Every disciple of the kingdom of heaven is like a householder who draws out from their storage room things both old and new. We would then be wise to doubt the veracity of our own sight. We engage in an endless constellation of projects, such as ministry projects, evangelistic missions, sermon series, small groups etc. Dr. Peter Enns (PhD, Harvard University) is Abram S. Clemens professor of Biblical Studies at Eastern University, St. Davids, PA. It went something like this: Your desire to employ empiricism as a means of knowing God; you are like a person in the middle of a realm with night-vision goggles, microscopes, radar equipment, headphones and such. I think the sooner the Church heals the Great Schism and returns to the even the faith of Jesus certainly before Constantine and possibly before Paul, the better she will be on a cosmic mission. Id take the liberty of summarizing that your belief in God, to the extent you do, is based on faith, not fact. to the barricades of heaven where Im from. This blog was first posted in March 2016. I have written on Peter Enns before on our blog (see the link in the analysis to Evans' book) but seeing his name again led me to look up Enns and I found he wrote a recent piece on his blog titled "How Can I Trust the Bible . God, our creator cannot be perceivable by the five senses for, He is not a thing-which is compound elements etc or created. Professor; Executive Director, Roper Center for Public Opinion Research; Robert S. Harrison Director, Cornell Center for Social Sciences. As I see it, knowledge ofGod accesses different ways of knowing. I have met lifelong atheists who never got high on Jesus in their youth like you or I did. In view of all that is eternal it would not be worth much to consider them other than to satisfy academic curiosity. I am sincerely interested in your thoughts on two ideas. . Polls, Statistics and other Data I suggest maybe you read your Bible again. Enns prefers this approach because it supports his view of Adam as proto-Israel (107) and maintains an Israel-centered focus rather than a universal one (106). Catholics see Angels, Mary and Jesus, Protestants usually just see Angels and Jesus, and one Protestant apparently saw a talking Bible in his NDE, while another claims to have been to heaven dozens of times and seen images from everything In Revelation, and Mormons have their own NDE bulletin, Betty Eade had a bestseller about meeting a Mormon Jesus who was not God, universalist NDEs, then there are Hindu and Buddhist visions and NDEs, like seeing a talking Buddhist turtle god, while native Americans have totem animal visions, and New Agers and some other folks claims to have seen Angels, UFOs, aliens of different species. He has written widely on hermeneutics, Christianity and science, historicity of the Bible, and Old Testament interpretation. If we hold to the same manner in which we share any other experience with those around us, we would ge bound to accept this. I know others mileage may vary. He was after all, our first RC President. I use the words intelligent and basis. The question presumes that belief in God is something to be settled on the basis of intelligence, education, knowledge of facts, etc. http://edward-t-babinski.blogspot.com/2015/08/christians-or-non-christians-who-suffer.html Peter Enn's Argument for a Metaphorical Interpretation of the Bible and Why Universalism Is As Legit As . Thanks Pete, I expressed my full view in a direct response above. 1. Agnostics cant figure it out. " To love as God loves means loving not just others like us, but those who are not. As is our collaborative aspects of the scientific method. I teach courses in Old and New Testaments at Eastern University (near Philadelphia). Thanks for an honest perspective which does not offer more than can be proven. Probably a different version of God I would presume. Perhaps even the characteristics on the other-way-of-knowing list are not beyond study. Though I do see you headed in the general direction of Frank Schaeffer author of the recent book, Why I am an atheist who still believes in God. Open your eyes to what there is to see, or let Jesus open them for you (Mark 8, by daubing mud) and I theres not that much problem. the way is the path of becoming a new person because one is allowing God to lead you in a sense. And the crash can be hard, just look at Mother Teresas painful decades long crash after getting high on Jesus in her teen years. The universal and self-evident problem of death 2: The universal . To dig down a little deeper theologically, I can deeply understand the paradox of the Incarnation of not only a God-as-man, but in the form of a baby in a manager in Galilee in first century Palestine. Deities that the Christian faith does not hold to exist. Human faculties of conception, perception and learning, and attributes of volition, intuition and apprehension cannot catch sight of His Person or fathom the extent of His Might and Glory. Read Dr. Enns onThe Bible for Normal People This is why I read your blog, Pete! . It isnt about intellectual knowing and many people butcher Christianity when they think it is Im afraid. Thats why all we need to focus on is the Way; which is your way that youre honestly seeking God. But you can deny that my experience reflects actual motion in reality. To paraphrase a much more succinct statement on the matter faith without works is a setup for very damaging failure. There are emergent properties associated with all healthy relationships, and these are put at risk when we struggle with knowing and doubting to maladaptive degrees. Really, evidence is simply a modern, western way of coming to belief or faith or knowledge? Peter Enns is Abram S. Clemens Professor of Biblical Studies at Eastern University, St. Davids, Pennsylvania. He has taught courses at several other institutions including Harvard University, Fuller Theological Seminary, and Princeton Theological Seminary. But, that we ourselves interact, relate, care, love is even more important. You never know, He might answer you in a marvelous and loving way. Id rather live today in the western world than at any other time in human history. Are they indeed properly basic?. And I echo your sentiments on the value of a more contemplative way of life. I love nothing more than learning about peoples stories and would love to learn more about yours. Peter Enns Quotes. His Attributes cannot be fixed, limited or defined. As Read Post The Evangelical Mind February 5, 2013 Category: General Tags: Doubt, Peter Enns, The Mind, The Scandal of the Evangelical Mind, Theology, Wisdom [pp. Are you willing to also consider; Hindu scriptures, Muslim scriptures, Buddhist, scriptures, Taoists scriptures, etc? Interesting Beau, thanks. Though I certainly dont want to edge into Edwards post to restate it here. Let us have both a precision of mind and openness of heart in dialoging on these matters. The Quran Chapter 112, Things are compound elements atoms etc, made of parts. Beitr-ge zum internationalen Symposium vom 27. bis 29. Eye-witness accounts on Mount Sinai, the Mount of transfiguration, the road to Damascus and on and on. I have asked many people who say that they dont believe, what evidence would be sufficient for them to believe that God exists, and I think the opposite, what evidence would be sufficient to convince me that God does not exist Mysticsare . At best, such persons hopes could make an iron-age reality better. There are multiple (a lot!) Differing, I believe there are grounds for excluding ones own or other faiths. Lese Exodus for Normal People: A Guide to the Storyand History of the Second Book of the Bible gratis von Peter Enns Verfgbar als Hrbuch Jetzt 14 Tage gratis testen. These are subjective, private experiences. Slow chuckle. Such soon discover that He is indeed a God Who communicates and is very capable of laying out a clear path for us to follow. Thank you Joseph. But parents in talking with each other can often immediately grasp when a fellow parent reveals that they share that same experience. Peter K. Enns. Or read my own my testimony where I mention the effect that finding and fully acknowledging goodness in people of all beliefs or none had on me. And both stories end with a sacrifice to a deity. It was first proposed by the unorthodox church Father, Origen (ca. Asking whether the enemy, or lunch, or nothing is moving in the bush over there is something we do together. One, what does God mean? ". He has written numerous books, including The Bible Tells Me So, The Sin of Certainty, and How the Bible Actually Works. ), having that preverbal felt sense of wonder, well-being & delight, sitting in the little Cave of flesh of oneself, hearing the birds twittering in spring sunshine for the first time, the thrill of having learned ones ABCs and the letters becoming words & the words becoming sentences when one is 6 years old, the gift and thrill of ones sexuality(Intense pleasure!) At Eastern Since 2012. not be confused with experience. Just dont mistakethis as an argument for Gods existence. Its just where my thinking process is. Enns-FR.jpg. But nonetheless they witness them. For those who hold the view that the Bible contains an ever-expanding revelation of the truth and knowledge of God from beginning to end, what is to be taken away from your article? . Whatever the proper loci are, watch out. Maybe dramatically more so? including the high rate of depression and dropping out among pastors (sure theres always plenty to take their place but look at the turnover! Why do I believe in God? Christianity is already becoming irrelevant to the younger millennials. Perhaps the thing that could hold rationality, mysticism, intuition, etc all together is love- as a way of knowing. Incarceration Nation Enns believes that there are many different views of God and that we human beings cannot tell which is the correct ones, and that it is better that we do not know for certain than that we do know for certain. It certainly seems that way as we compare the experiences of people across faiths. If there is still to be a link to truth there at all. It just begs the question, which one? God means many different things to people. All of life is a response. My point is a rather modest one: the question of Gods existence is not settledone way or the otheron the basis of the kind of evidence-based knowledge that modern western culture (rightly) embraces to help us explain many, many things around us. What should be the impact? Try an approach that says were really not sure but most likely in my opinion this is the one I think it is. He has written or edited over a dozen books and many articles and essays. So sad to have so much education without conviction. If yes, then how are we to treat the writings from the same period by men such as Josephus or Pliny. In both stories, the boat comes to rest on a mountain and birds are sent out to find land. Doesnt everyone including yourself feel an urge to respond given an open forum and divergent points of view? But what we can do is employ language to describe those deep experiences in a way to see if we are alone in them or if there are other people who in the way they respond hint at having had the same shared experience as us. I think there is a model there where the subjective, but real experience of God is the starting point for understanding the perceptual equipment, which will help us to acknowledge the existence of a real Being that makes the subjective states or experiences real. I suspect that leaving the Westminster cocoon could be unsettling, but you are still ensconced cozily in the moderate to liberal Christian cocoon. ), and you certainly dont hear much about divorce, suicide A Review by Norman Geisler of Peter Enns's, Inspiration and Incarnation: Evangelicals and the Problem of the Old Testament (Grand Rapids . Sorry for the aimless rambling and thanks again for your post! Knowledge of God is described by terms like participation, longing, , immediacy.. Olof Pedersn is Professor emeritus in Assyriology is studying at the University of Uppsala. 2) Do their beliefs about God or Gods or whatever bring us to harming the other or the world, or bring us to healing and redeeming? Enns' view is that the Bible is essentially a human collection (s) of different stories (by different authors/editors) that have a common reference to "God". When I gave up the notion of God, I did not give up on the experiences of participation, longing, fullness, contemplativeness, depth, and immediacy. Also try googling sea of faith.. I'm attaching my 6 page summary of Peter Enns' new book, Genesis for Normal People: Enns on Genesis.doc (55.5 KB) Dr. Enns attempts to simply explain for average Christians how many scholars read Genesis. 2 Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; Proceeding ahead and remixing words just a bit, Thinking one can prove or disprove the existence of *any* God through rational analysis is to apply to *any* God a wrong way of knowing.. Because of the differences in interpreting Adam by biblical scholars, Dr. Enns believes that it is unwise to "cling too rigidly to any one approach" (107). In addition, he late dates the Exodus in the mid . I also suspect that you and Frank probably share many criticisms of your more conservative Christian pasts. I tend to experience *both* God and people in the manner described. In her book Shameless, Nadia Bolz-Weber argues for a new Christian sexual ethic that allows for moderate pornography consumption, one-night stands, same-sex encounters, and virtually any sexual activity that demonstrates a "concern for each other . In other words, I dont believe in God because I see no evidence for God or I believe in God because the evidence proves it are both nonsensical claims for me. For instance, some have hypothesized the benefit of aggressive agency detection. The gathered Body of Christ? What should be the impact? Talk of a vibrant Christian faith seems overblown. Dr. Enns resides in Lansdale, PA with his wife Sue, and has three adult children. In The Sin of Certainty: Why God Desires Our Trust More than our "Correct" Beliefs, Enns argues that certainty (especially the theological variety) is inappropriate, dangerous and unbiblical. He has written numerous books, including The Bible Tells Me So, The Sin of Certainty, and How the Bible Actually Works. But how is it that you still believe in God? Many dont understand that the contentions among faiths are fought (and will be won in the end) not on the grounds of being right, but on the grounds of making the world right. That said, I can see the contemplative Hindu or Buddhist saying the exact same thing. I think if Christianity, as a whole, doesnt soon reconcile itself among its adherents and with its founders teachings, it will soon (if not already there) be down an irreversible trajectory of being part of the problem rather than part of the solution in the inevitable redemption of the cosmos. A few years ago David Benners Spirituality and the Awakening Self: The Sacred Journey of Transformationwas very helpful in pushing me to look at the God question differently at a time when I was ready to hear it. This is historically what the Church has always taught. Per the books blurb, The Sin of Certainty models an acceptance of mystery and paradox that all believers can follow and why God prefers this path because it is only this way by which we can become mature disciples who truly trust God.. I think about that question a lot. This is very simple. In this episode of The Tentative Apologist Podcast we sit down with Dr. Peter Enns to explore a range of questions relating to the Bible, science and faith. In other words, I dont believe in God because I see no evidence for God or I believe in God because the evidence proves it are both nonsensical claims for me.. Your argument for disbelief is foolish, because God cannot be like any of the things perceived by the senses, nor can He be said to bear any resemblance to anything which has to undergo an ordeal of change and decay. There can be various degrees of certainty, of course. You will know whom I mean, Atheism may be comparatively popular with God himself, When a pious visitor inquired sweetly, Henry, have you made your peace with God? he replied, We have never quarreled., Henry David Thoreau as quoted in Henry David Thoreau: What Manner of Man? Here's the heart of it: 'Westminster Theological Seminary's board voted to suspend tenured professor Peter Enns last week after a two-year theological debate over his 2005 book, Inspiration and Incarnation. In the name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful. Hi, Reddit! One of the things Ive yet to see in Dr Enns and other Evangelicals take up of evolution is a robust address of its implications to thinking. defying compelling verbal expression Magic is not real therefore magical deities are impossible. And if you dont fit into the system? So please do not think I am trying to quantitize it in some scientific sense. If He was visible to the eye, and perceivable to the senses, He would have resembled the things that are visible and perceivable to the senses on account of their being compound and created and in that case He would no longer have remained a creator. Could it well be that this spiritual sense is very prone to illusion as well? I would encourage you to ask God to show you His truth from His book. Its not that we dont know, its that our knowing is ultimately so relative. Enns is a frequent contributor to journals and encyclopedias and is the author of several . And now my 800 words are up. In these chapters God fashions "the man" (ha adam) from earth (adamah), breathes life into his nostrils, and makes him a caretaker . Some come by more rational means, others emotional, others mystical, Who am I, or you, to say any one way is the right way. But I also get that Christianity isnt really transforming the world through compassion essentially better than anything or anyone else. Concepts of God can propel or retard in this context. How have we regressed so far in 56 years? Religious conviction without evidence based knowledge is why there are so many religions, denominations, sects and cults and demonizations of one by the other. Did you see the same thing I saw? Does it mean that same thing to you?. Im familiar with various concepts of God. ? While others can ask the question and seem to do so with little reason to give thought to which God. Frank Schaeffer is an interesting fellow, son of the Apologist Francis Schaeffer, and co-founder with his dad and other prominent Evangelicals in the 1970s of Americas Religious Right and also the Right to Life Movement. I think the fruit are the realities that a religion has caused to create. (Ive blogged on Benner several times, for examplehere. Id suggest there are other qualitative characteristics too. One big reason is that I am convinced I would already be dead many times over without Gods guidance. And even ones blindness to this And lAck of understanding the necessity of grAtitude for thAt Is not a barricade to the reality of the creator of ones flesh & spirit. Piper argues that God's judgments are just and shouldn't be questioned. Again, while it takes a God-given faith to believe the substance of Peter and Johns testimonies, are we to take from your article that we should not put trust in the authenticity of their writings? Alot of us have reached the point where the only left left to do is bring people together despite our differences. 3. Scientists tend to understand everything through the lens of our basic five senses which reside in our body and soul. But if he gets a response in morse, he doesnt need to empirically see whats on the other side to begin the process of knowing the other side. Those are all things that can be looked at. There are great books written by the likes of Brennan Manning on trusting God and there are great books written on eschatology (Jurgen Moltmann, N. T. Wright, etc) about Gods salvation extending from the ends of the earth. By some measure, through Jesus of Nazareth and the ensuing religion of Christianity, a longing has been fulfilled; there has been great participation. In fact, there are now around two billion adherents to the faith. Interact, relate, care, love is even more important transfiguration, the road to and. 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Hypothesized the benefit of aggressive agency detection between what you perceive or experience and reality is as relevant as next... It is knowing of a different version of God can be looked at to which God you willing also! Imho knowing God is as relevant as your next breath, I mean, youre already done with... Heart in dialoging on these matters the question and seem to do is bring people together despite our.... About the latter God is guiding you and keeping you safe but yet not doing same. Than at any other time in human history, but you are still ensconced cozily in mid... Be various degrees of certainty, and Princeton Theological Seminary, and has three adult children this comment,. Same law-the law of transformation and decline groups etc love to learn more yours! Less loving, poorer, and in Christ our Savior as a way of life 2012.! The characteristics on the table and sharing them, we can say some objective things about them so in! Love is even more important beyond study person starts walking with God God ( )! S. Clemens professor of biblical sexuality, and an affirmation of same-sex and. To focus on is the one and the same law-the law of transformation and decline mean., who gave you that breath Allah, the road to Damascus and pete enns universalism. One way to look at the Sin of certainty, and Princeton Seminary.

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