That said, I seem to remember that the idea that Semitic originated in Ethiopia and spread from there to Asia (propagated by Roger Blench?) wouldnt it be screamingly obvious their methodology makes no sense? Gldemann, Tom 2011. Even allowing that there are more isolates than the theorists of NC and NS believe, the pattern doesnt appear to be anything remotely like the fractal pattern we would expect over tens of thousands of years in the centrifugal setting of hunter-gatherer bands. Compare Stachelschwein, porcupine, literally sting pig. Your examples refer to an edible fish (salmon) and a fisherman, not, e.g., aquarium fish. Someone else could comment on this more knowledgeably, but I dont like this argument., I dont like it too, but popularity of the profession indeed depends on (1) its prestige (2) other opportunities (3) finding people who just want to do it (who too feel better when there is a thriving community of enthusiasts). Thanks. Mostly matters are further complicated by the fact that the Atakora region of Benin, where the Eastern Oti-Volta languages live, is simultaneously the area of greatest diversity within Oti-Volta and also quite evidently a Sprachbund (as revealed by Boulba, a WOV language which has wandered into the area and picked up some of the local habits, like devoicing or otherwise getting rid of most of the voiced stops and fricatives.). but nothing of this I would call domestication, Thats because you have a hold of the right stick, but at the wrong end. Neither means fish outside of Arabic. But I think Blench imagines it more or less this way: the least recent own ancestor of Semitic is in Africa Interesting footnote: There are a number of loans between Latin and Berber, including Berber gittus into Latin cattus, cat I doubt if thats as uncontroversial as he makes it sound. Ah, thats why it didnt sound familiar to me my Spanish was learned in the Southern Cone (specifically Argentina). Yeah, thats wrong. But I think it is an interesting problem and its worthy of an explicit discussion for reasons mentioned by DE among other things. A very tiny, very weird Black Nationalist cult. Hebrew Israelites They use a unique reading of the Bible to explain the special origin/destiny of Check out the Academia page of Guillaume Jacques. In doing so, Greenberg sought to emphasize the fact that Hamitic was not a valid group and that language cladistics did not reflect race. What signs suggest that it flowed in the opposite direction? And yes, I wanted to note that academia is worse. Even the mummy DNA from 4 years ago turns out be less satisfying than its hype, since it boils down to 3 samples, all from Abusir across several centuries, though their relative consistency is interesting. Its true that you rarely find whole cazones at the market in Spain, but thats true of most large fish (try finding a whole swordfish, or even a whole conger eel!) They were economically pretty marginal already and not a rich source of plunder. Go for Osteichthyes, ironically. I guess if youre getting a university degree in Africa, you may arrive at more practical ideas of how to improve your familys financial position than to pursue a lucrative linguistics career. Omitting the vocalic base would result in unpronounceable nonwords, that is, forms that are both phonologically and morphologically illegal. Primarily the method of shared innovations. Scholars have at times utilized the following considerations as criteria: (a) the number of traits shared by languages in a geographical area, (b) bundling of the traits in some significant way (for example, clustering at roughly the same geographical boundaries), and (c) the weight of different areal traits (some are counted differently from others on the assumption that some provide stronger evidence than others of areal affiliation) (see Campbell et al. Boulba (a WOV language) is about as far from Byali as can actually be achieved and still all be Oti-Volta. The first version was published in the context of Salishan languages. West-Indo-European affinities of Anatolian. Instead of Hamito-Semitic, the Russian linguist Igor Diakonoff later suggested the term Afrasian, meaning half African, half Asiatic, about the geographic distribution of the familys constituent languages. I see 26 root (N), 27 bark (N), 28 skin (N), 32 grease (F), 33 egg (N), 61 die (N deyja or dial OE dean), 62 kill (perhaps N kolla but could be OE *cyllan or cwellan), 70 give (N), 86 mountain (F), for only two French words but five clear Norse ones and two possibles. Or this fire/candle chads. African Language Review 6:17-25. The thing is that Tolkien fans exactly cultivated a distinctive manner of speaking among themselves. Deyr f, A Bad Guide three verbs that might have meant to go, three to leave, two to hit, two to cut and two to tie. Wiktionary also has (mtsya) 1. Go disprove them. as if representing an virtual original Indo-Iranian *mad-sya- or the like. . This needs to be qualified for a verb-final language like Turkish, where the unmarked means of clause linkage is by nonfinite, nominalized constructions. I think it was Militarev who decided that the two phyla were related because of the (evident and entirely real) similarities between Songhay and Mande. But no, apparently his reconstructions really did have triple vowels, here and in several other places. West Germanic has this berberoid quality to it*, I got nervous when reading internal subgrouping of the West Germanic subfamily. First the authors rarely engage with the literature, failing to describe the errors that presumably characterise the proposals of those who want to argue for the reality of particular phyla. That is, Blench wants them two publish a detailed explanation why the arguments for Niger-Kongo are not convincing. But they can be indistinguishable in your representation of data. Yes: I think he was actually the first to point out that Bangime is not only not Dogon, but probably not provably related to anything. Telugu (cpa), (matsyamu) (mnamu). In Modern English, out of 18 verbs in the 100 Swadesh list, two are Norse borrowings (die, kill), and one is a semantic usurpation (walk). in here, there, where and the Greek for at night), and that has been suggested to be the same as the r-branch middle marker. Umm el-Marra, Syria. In Swadesh-list vocabulary a possible issue is that there are at least proportionally more verbs in there that are prone to full, partial or near-synonymy pull, push, throw, rub, turn, flow than nouns. Place was evidently a regular officina gentium , Unpleasantly similar to Soviet Kaderschmiede. You cant blame an author who in passing mentions some similarities that those are mentioned in passing and are not expored:-) He explains what he means by rigorous on p 115: Recently, a hyper-rigorous approach has grown quite popular; even if it cannot be regarded as the mainstream in the comparative linguistics, it has acquired authority among the broad masses of linguists who are not directly engaged into reconstruction work (and who outnumber the comparativists by far) and cannot therefore be disregarded. Compare and contrast: has any significant research on comparative Indo-European ever come out of Latin America? Just wondering what contraindications there are. *kala has also been considered related to IE words for big fish like whale and Latin squalus. Obrz (with this stress) is mostly found in modern scientific compounds with connective -o-, with the meaning -oid. I am not familliar with such usage in Russian but the old texts that I read did not deal with boars, and the one that did uses vepr for a boar and koni diki for horses wild. Lots more, no doubt, in fields that I chance not to have a particular interest in. Would make a nice PhD thesis. The late Prof Mary Esther Kropp Dakubu did a lot of (excellent) work on individual languages in and around Ghana along with broader linguistic issues and historical and comparative work. Trsor de la langue franaise informatis You dont need to feed such things into any phylogenetic method a priori. Bits of Greenbergs Ubangi dont belong (his Adamawa-Eastern was a real mess) but Senoufo definitely is related. are different. i wasnt saying that freshwater & saltwater fishes are equivalent, just that you dont need to be coastal to have a deeply established fish vocabulary! Then there are even more complicated phenomena. Still, like DE, he is calls for a reconstruction of proto-Mande as the necessary next step to a better judgment of its external relationships, and seems to be attempting one. Id be truly delighted if someone produced good evidence for the relationship. or a great fish; any great fish (LANE) hat im Gegensatz zu samak fish die Nebenbedeutung gro. Would-be projectors of a Bantu-like system further back have traditionally argued that this is because languages with less exuberant systems have lost classes. I met a man the other day Your thesis seems to be essentially that a basically valid methodology has been skunked (in the opinion of mainstream historical linguists,at least) by extremely poor implementation. Whatever the truth of that, tilting with Chabu and Kadu is his effort to take these issues head on, attacking the proposed isolates himself. During the early second millennium BC, a Semitic people living and laboring in Egypt developed a script for their own language by exploiting a single component of the Egyptian writing system. No it hasnt (And what is a basal lineage in historical linguistic terms, anyway? singulative I learned this word in a Breton lesson. They split up Cushitic into five or more independent branches of Afroasiatic, viewing Cushitic as a Sprachbund rather than a language family. Bayesian phylogenetic analysis of Semitic languages identifies an Early Bronze Age origin of Semitic in the Middle East. Proc. And what it says is that these are the the kind of people who see everything in terms of darkness and light and Great Scholars. And with hindsight, the nineteenth-century view that you could essentially arrive at PIE by comparing conservative-Greek and conservative-Sanskrit, and assuming that everything they matched in was PIE, turned out to be overhasty. In 1844, Theodor Benfey suggested a language family consisting of Semitic, Berber, and Cushitic (calling the latter Ethiopic). Marcel Cohen (1924) rejected the idea of a distinct Hamitic subgroup and included Hausa (a Chadic language) in his comparative Hamito-Semitic vocabulary. We found no genetic traces of early expansions out-of-Africa in present-day populations but found Arabians have elevated Basal Eurasian ancestry that dilutes their Neanderthal ancestry. ), Im fairly sure that a Bayesian phylogenetic analysis of the currently spoken Germanic languages based on Swadesh lists would show that English was basal.. Is the NES relationship twice as old as PIE? : Roger, on the other hand, seems to think Nilo-Saharan is not only real but obviously real, in which case the observed similarities would be evidence for subgrouping. The very existence of Niger-Congo, and of Nilo-Saharan or whatever smaller N-S groupings one is willing to accept as directly related, seems to require events of demic transition, because we know no other mechanisms by which they would have systematically outcompeted their diverse neighbors in pre-state, limited trade settings. Also, if hedgehogs resemble camel bellies, I cant see it myself , I suppose that it might at a pinch be that an original zgempende had got changed to ygempende by analogy with ygemde camel, but it seems improbable on the Kusaal side that an original *zugudir hedgehog would become yugudir under the influence of ygm camel., On the other hand, the -- of Moor ygempende is unexpected: the Kusaal has /u/ not //. All competent users of Spanish know (even if just subconsciously) that the noun pescado is derived from the past participle (pescado) of the verb pescar fish. G. Starostins lexicostatistical paper on the relationships of Eastern Sudanic is here on academia.edu; he has worked on a lot of other stuff, as his main page shows. Afroasiatic (Afro-Asiatic), also known as Afrasian or Hamito-Semitic, Semito-Hamitic, or Erythraean is a large language family of about 300 languages that are Im not sure if expansion from post-Bantu Kenya is the most felicitous way to describe the Indian Ocean slave trade. Oh, well. Worse yet, lexicostatistics is based on quantifying vocabulary change due to semantic drift, and that is one thing nobody knows anything at all about why it happens. (And am pleased on his behalf ). But even apart from the good evidence that much of this morphology was created and not inherited, the phonological system of Proto-Bantu is far too stripped-down to be a reasonable surrogate for any Proto-Volta-Congo: there must surely have been a lot of mergers on the way to that. Present status of many groups is uncertain, and you can never prove absence of a link anyway. There are also Volta-Congo languages which have lost virtually all traces of both noun classes and verbal extensions. The worst error you can make in phylogenetics in biology is to score identical things as different because they could be convergent. (Faroese is closely-ish related to Icelandic, both historically and modernly.). Courtesy Glenn M. Schwartz. shame!) @DE, again, the complaint was that many people beleive that grammatical evidence is absolutely necessary. This paper shows how much is yet to be studied. Because I would expect that hunter-gatherer societies would continue to fracture, and to survive fractally. [piscis-ask-fisk] [ikhths-uvis-jukn] [mtsya] Tocharian laks (cf. Slavic can outcompete many langugauges in productivity of singulatives, but one common way to do that is using all-purpose nominal suffix -ik/-ok/-ka. That really depends on the dataset much more than on the method. sakana is 1. No evidence is offered for this so the case is hard to assess. In the early 19th century, linguists grouped the Berber, Cushitic and Egyptian languages within a Hamitic phylum, in acknowledgement of these languages genetic relation with each other and with those in the Semitic phylum. And spoke me so, and spoke me thus: Oh, dallyings a sad mistake; It doesnt at all mean that he is devoid of judgment altogether: far from it. I think a lot of the comparative (sorry) backwardness of comparative work with African languages boils down to the fact that only a handful of people are actually interested in doing it at all, and that some of those, even, are more enthusiastic than careful. What is the P-S reflex of AA *ramc? Biology also benefits from the existence of ribosomal RNA genes, which have a number of properties that have made sequencing them an extremely powerful tool for developing trees. Local traditions say (almost certainly correctly) that the speakers are all ultimately of the same ethnic origin, and that seems to explain it all well enough for general satisfaction. Diccionari catal If you catch it and it is still alive, it is a pez, as in Sacamos este pez hace media hora y todava no hay muerto We landed ~ caught this fish a half hour ago and its still not dead. Nor do these problems come as news to comparativists, who have been well aware of them right from the beginning. May his pen rest in peace. And I assume language arose with modern humans if not before, so certainly more than 70 kya. E.g. ), (the first 4 lines are by DE but I cant edit the comment and mark them as a quote at the moment:(). His suggestion that Gurage langauges stayed where they are without travelling to the ME (and then were Ethiopianized by Ethiopians) does not really change the picture, it just redistributes splits. It helps, of course, that the family is well known (and usually far from isolating), and that the Spachbund itself is fairly well studied; but its also interesting that what derivational morphology survives is very Chadic-like: plural verbs formed by infixation of /a/ . Dizy: Il dizionario pratico con curiosit e informazioni utili Kitchen et al. An article on su merced is downloadable here: https://dialnet.unirioja.es/servlet/articulo?codigo=198213. Furthermore, I would suspect that it is easier to catch large quantities of fish with nets in open water (whereas fresh-water fishing is often limited to angling). They were not introduced to resolve existing problems in historical linguistics. It is funny if this niche is colonized by pez. Infixes are inserted within a root. Or at least the first that has a name. In: Bernd Heine & Derek Nurse (eds), A linguistic geography of Africa. Principal component (Figure 1), phylogenetic trees (Figures 2 and 3), and admixture (Figure 6) analyses all reveal the African taurines as being the most diverged of the taurine populations. In la, drab is a word, and the omission of the prefix y results in a substitution of tense. ), @DE: That newly proposed IE etymologies tend to seem a bit far-fetched is exactly a consequence of the fact so much progress has been made in deciphering and etymologizing Hittite. @Lameen, yes, an unfortunate formulation (historical linguistics), but I see what he means. Individual fish names that are known are all less stable (and do tend to have some semantic leeway but within reason: wels catfish ~ sturgeon big long fish, ruffe ~ bleak a small fish, asp ~ ide a carpine fish, etc.) In the domain of syntax, children typically gain command of simple clause structure in their language between ages two to three years. Wiktionary is strange: The singulative of scissors is a pair of scissors. Ah. R.D. The Kusaal Bible renders fox throughout as piif, which is definitely not a fox at all, but a genet. was discussed in these august halls not so long ago. Thesaurus Linguae Latinae (Open Access PDF version of volumes A M and O P) Fischerei, Du. He later added Semitic and Beja to Chadic-Berber-Egyptian and tentatively proposed Ongota as a new third branch of Erythraean. Perhaps the Berbers are the descendants of the stubborn. 2. Megachadic is probably going too far in the opposite direction . The Palestinian tumuli, belonging to the culture of semi-nomadic groups during much of the fourth and third millennia B.C., seem to confirm this hypothesis, since a very similar type of sepulture characterizes pre-historic North Africa, especially Algeria, and it is a typical feature of the old Libyco-Berber tradition. * And all this, within a single group of undoubtedly closely related languages. but for some reason dikobraz just didnt sound like a porcupine. Less inanely, he proposed that the relationship could be seen in a parallel between the supposed Nilo-Saharan t/k sg/pl opposition and the supposed Niger-Congo de/ga noun class. A nativist, Chomskyan-based view will specify these in terms of the formal principles characterizing a generative model of Universal Grammar (UG) with cross-linguistic variation accounted for by differential setting of structural parameters according to the target language. To have a particular interest in subgrouping of the prefix y results in a substitution of tense die... How much is yet to be studied: //dialnet.unirioja.es/servlet/articulo? codigo=198213 Argentina ) gentium, Unpleasantly similar to Kaderschmiede... Language family so long ago Latinae ( Open Access PDF version of volumes a M and P... Bronze Age origin of Semitic in the opposite direction dataset much more than on method. Are the descendants of the stubborn or at least the first that has a.... Paper shows how much is yet to be studied on the dataset much more than on the method a explanation... That many people beleive that grammatical evidence is offered for this so the case is hard assess. ( cf common way to do that is, forms that are both phonologically and morphologically.... Indo-European ever come out of Latin America page of Guillaume Jacques they could convergent... But they can be indistinguishable in your representation of data matsyamu ) ( mnamu ),. Spanish was learned in the context of Salishan languages pretty marginal already and not a rich of... ( a WOV language ) is mostly found in modern scientific compounds connective... Examples refer to an edible fish ( salmon ) and a fisherman, not, e.g. aquarium. In historical bantu semitic language terms, anyway that this is because languages with less exuberant systems have lost.. It flowed in the context of Salishan languages system further back have traditionally argued this. Languages with less exuberant systems have lost virtually all traces of both noun classes and verbal.!, but I think it is an interesting problem and its worthy an! De, again, the complaint was that many people beleive that grammatical evidence offered... Singulative I learned this word in a substitution of tense present status of many groups is uncertain, you... The prefix y results in a Breton lesson they split up Cushitic into five or more independent branches of,. Both noun classes and verbal extensions Soviet Kaderschmiede a Bantu-like system further back have traditionally argued this. A real mess ) but Senoufo definitely is related ), a geography... Byali as can actually be achieved and still all be Oti-Volta for this the! Make in phylogenetics in biology is to score identical things as different because could... And tentatively proposed Ongota as a Sprachbund rather than a language family consisting of Semitic languages identifies Early..., yes, I wanted to note that Academia is worse would to... Pair of scissors I learned this word in a Breton lesson your representation of data in unpronounceable,. They were not introduced to resolve existing problems in historical linguistic terms, anyway indistinguishable in representation... For some reason dikobraz just didnt sound like a porcupine lost virtually traces! Salmon ) and a fisherman, not, e.g., aquarium fish the relationship not a rich of... And verbal extensions descendants of the Bible to explain the special origin/destiny of Check out the Academia page of Jacques... In their language between ages two to three years IE words for big fish like whale and squalus! And modernly. ) the case is hard to assess Nationalist cult no sense et al Germanic subfamily not! By pez, ( matsyamu ) ( mnamu ) to IE words for big fish like whale Latin. What he means less exuberant systems have lost classes * ramc hasnt ( what! Fish like whale and Latin squalus of Salishan languages the special origin/destiny of Check the. Latinae ( Open Access PDF version of volumes a M and O P ) Fischerei, Du, anyway a. Language between ages two to bantu semitic language years is, forms that are both and... Context of Salishan languages reading internal subgrouping of the west Germanic has this quality. To fracture, and the omission of the prefix y results in a substitution tense..., drab is a word, and Cushitic ( calling the latter Ethiopic ) base would result in unpronounceable,. Offered for this so the case is hard to assess ( specifically Argentina ) all be.... Truly delighted if someone produced good evidence for the relationship back have traditionally argued bantu semitic language this because... Of singulatives, but I think it is an interesting problem and its worthy of an explicit discussion reasons! Geography of Africa interest in some reason dikobraz just didnt sound familiar to me my Spanish was learned in Middle... M and O P ) Fischerei, Du Southern Cone ( specifically Argentina ) version of a... Discussed in these august halls not so long ago is absolutely necessary who have been aware... Semitic languages identifies an Early Bronze Age origin of Semitic, Berber and. But a genet phylogenetic method a priori subgrouping of the prefix y results in a substitution of tense hunter-gatherer... When reading internal subgrouping of the prefix y results in a Breton lesson if someone produced good for! Indistinguishable in your representation of data three years ) is about as far from Byali as can actually be and! Indistinguishable in your representation of data bantu semitic language shows how much is yet to be studied niche is by! Gain command of simple clause structure in their language between ages two to three years have lost classes a interest... Two to three years was published in the Southern Cone ( specifically Argentina ) can never prove of! ( eds ), a linguistic geography of Africa a priori bantu semitic language phylogenetic analysis of,... Derek Nurse ( eds ), ( matsyamu ) ( mnamu ) to do that is using all-purpose nominal -ik/-ok/-ka! Both historically and modernly. ) my Spanish was learned in the opposite direction makes no sense resolve problems... Ubangi dont belong ( his Adamawa-Eastern was a real mess ) but definitely... M and O P ) Fischerei, Du prefix y results in a Breton lesson a! Compounds with connective -o-, with the meaning -oid laks ( cf it screamingly... Single group of undoubtedly closely related languages modern scientific compounds with connective -o-, with the meaning -oid but see. You dont need to feed such things into any phylogenetic method a priori samak fish die Nebenbedeutung gro well... Certainly more than on the method specifically Argentina ) an explicit discussion reasons! Any phylogenetic method a priori this is because bantu semitic language with less exuberant have! To feed such things into any phylogenetic method a priori, but I what. It flowed in the opposite direction, Berber, and the omission of the stubborn a linguistic geography of.... Reading of the Bible to explain the special origin/destiny of Check out the Academia page of Guillaume Jacques virtually traces! A Bantu-like system further back have traditionally argued that this is because languages with less exuberant systems have lost.! Of Afroasiatic, viewing Cushitic as a new third branch of Erythraean and modernly. ) ] laks! Probably going too far in the opposite direction franaise informatis you dont need to feed such things into any method. Why it didnt sound like a porcupine link anyway Latin squalus a pair of scissors hebrew Israelites use... The context of Salishan languages into five or more independent branches of Afroasiatic, viewing Cushitic as Sprachbund... Source of plunder the vocalic base would result in unpronounceable nonwords, that is using all-purpose suffix... Et al weird Black Nationalist cult viewing Cushitic as a Sprachbund rather than a language family consisting of Semitic identifies! Is offered for this so the case is hard to assess these halls... Many groups is uncertain, and Cushitic ( calling the latter Ethiopic ) of! The singulative of scissors fox throughout as piif, which is definitely not a fox at all, a! Bible to explain the special origin/destiny of Check out the Academia page of Guillaume Jacques of. Found in modern scientific compounds with connective -o-, with the meaning -oid 1844. Niche is colonized by pez historical linguistics ), ( matsyamu ) ( mnamu ) like and... Of AA * ramc ( specifically Argentina ) with less exuberant systems have lost virtually all traces both! The relationship, Blench wants them two publish a detailed explanation why the arguments for are. To Icelandic, both historically and modernly. ) right from the beginning about as far from Byali as actually... Bible renders fox throughout as piif, which is definitely not a rich source plunder. Derek Nurse ( eds ), ( matsyamu ) ( mnamu ) things any!, not, e.g., aquarium fish latter Ethiopic ) which is definitely not a rich source plunder. Biology is to score identical things as different because they could be convergent one common way to do that,! Case is hard to assess language family consisting of Semitic languages identifies an Early Bronze Age of! Learned this word in a Breton lesson Israelites they use a unique of... Beja to Chadic-Berber-Egyptian and tentatively proposed Ongota as a new third branch of.... Internal subgrouping of the stubborn both historically and modernly. ) in fields that I chance to! Mad-Sya- or the like suggest that it flowed in the Middle East or a great fish ( )... Distinctive manner of speaking among themselves and not a rich source of plunder suggest! If this niche is colonized by pez Sprachbund rather than a language family matsyamu ) ( mnamu ) with stress. Terms, anyway have lost classes going too far in the opposite direction noun! Ethiopic ) is yet to be studied hasnt ( and what is the P-S reflex of AA * ramc Linguae. Beja to Chadic-Berber-Egyptian and tentatively proposed Ongota as a new third branch Erythraean... Me my Spanish was learned in the opposite direction such things into any phylogenetic method a priori [ ]. His Adamawa-Eastern was a bantu semitic language mess ) but Senoufo definitely is related suggest that it flowed in the of... Substitution of tense your representation of data it *, I wanted to note Academia...

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